GainesvilleMoms.com

Did anyone else read this article?

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080715/ZNYT04/8071...&tc=email_newsletter

What are your thoughts?

It's a scary thought. But I have to back up teachers, too. My mom was a principal, and I've heard her talk about a couple instances of having to hold down children because they were on the verge of hurting themselves or others during an outburst. One time she came home with scratches all over her arm because of one child. What else is a teacher to do in that kind of situation?

I know what you mean RaisingBoys. My mom has been scratched, spit on, hit, everything you can imagine.

It really is such a fine line. The article didn't seem to mention anything about calling the parents when the children got too carried away or hard to calm down. I know if I was a parent of a child having those problems, I'd like the school to call me so I could help my child.

I guess the problem would be if working parents were getting those calls every day...

when i worked at a daycare (a top rated daycare). i worked with a severely adhd child. he was 6 years old and weighed 85lbs, i was 18 and weighed 90lbs. the kid could and would hurt me and any of the other teachers at any given time. twice a day, we had go give him meds. this was a smart child, he would hold the pill in his mouth and then say "i need a drink from the fountain" and go spit the pill down the drain. so we had to start holding him (requested by his parents and his pediatrician) when we gave him the meds. i would sit on the floor, put him between my legs, wrap my legs over his, then cross his arms and brace myself. because i walked away several times with a bloody nose or lip because he would headbutt me. and when he got overly agressive with the other kids, we would have to restrain him this way. but that was after several attempts to redirect him much like you would a toddler throwing a temper tantrum.
when i first walked in, to this child who would just assume hurt me, than look at me i thought "what have i gotten myself into" but by the end of my time there (4 years) i started to forge a relationship with him and another child in my class with severe adhd. it seemed i was the "dumping ground" for kids no one else could handle. a 4 year old with severe speech problems, he used his own made up sign language of sorts, and i was able to work with him and understand him better than his own parents. the 2 severely adhd children. a 5 year old who hurt herself when she got angry or upset. and an infant who had a horrible birthmark on her arm that had to remain wrapped in bandages because it would bust open and bleed and ooze. a little girl who was around 2 who would scream from the moment she got to the daycare until her mother came to get her (she was a full time student). that child ended up being so attached to me i couldnt even go to the bathroom without her and another teacher standing at the door.
ok, so this became a long response...sorry about that. i guess i feel that maybe these parents should have offered some OTHER way for these teachers to deal with these kids if they didnt like how they were being handled. leaving a bruise on a child is NOT ok. but if they were trying to keep him from hurting another child that was maybe smaller than him or whatever, then you have to be able to get a hold on the situation.
im not really sure how i feel about the article. but i think that as long as you have discussed restraining with the parents and the pediatrician, then its not always a bad thing if used as a last resort.

Wow, this is a really tough one. I think that maybe if there was a way to take the kids with these behaviors and work together with the school, parents and doctors to work out a specific plan for that child in order to be mainstreamed.
It is really hard with things being cut in the money dept. it maybe really hard for some schools to completely accommodate what every child needs.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is any easy answer.

I think the major issue is the mainstreaming. Some kids with mild disorders--this is a good thing. However, my aunt works with disabled children and she says it would be detrimental to both her kids and the rest of the class if they were all thrown together. I think parents should know what's going on (have access to all log books) and have reasonable expectations and solutions with respect to all the other kids and the teachers responsible for, not just their child, but all of them. I feel working with disabled children requires specialized training so that teachers aren't thrown into a situation they can't handle properly by trying to shortcut the disciplinary process. This is tough and no teacher gets paid enough and you'd be surprised to know that teachers who work with special needs kids usually get paid less than other teachers. I know where I grew up they made the coaches teach the Special Ed classes so I know they weren't getting what they needed. MORE MONEY FOR TEACHERS!

The first thing that came to my mind was, what's happening in Alachua County schools?

To learn about the policies for restraining children in Alachua County visit parentingtimes.gainesville.com

Parents of children who have special educational/emotional needs have pushed very hard to have their children mainstreamed into the public school system.

I've been acquainted with several such affected families - and each of them has clung to the hope that the public schools will be able to "work a miracle" for their child - and that the "special need" will somehow be diluted or go away. For some children, being mainstreamed has indeed allowed children who would have languished in "special ed" to bloom.

But for others, it's a failed option - and not just for the child with the special need, but academically, for the rest of the children in the classroom as well. Exhausted, frustrated teachers must spend (according to teacher-friends) sometimes up to 95% of their time managing the behavior of just one child. The other 19 children in the classroom must somehow manage themselves - and very often learn to resent the child absorbing all the attention. And the affected child ends up being more frightened, more intimidated, more isolated - and not mainstreamed at all except in name.

There are parents who are in denial about the severity of their child's educational/emotional difficulties, and who don't share any behavior management insights with the schools. And then, when sad events occur, like the article referenced above, the parents are angry. Well, I'm sorry - but temper outbursts that could result in self-hurt, or damage to other children, need to be controlled - and at the school, that would most likely be by the adults.

Parents need to be held accountable for their child's behavior - at all times. I know this is a hard concept - after all, how can we begin to manage our children's behaviors when they're not with us?

Our son has a severe learning disability. Fortunately for him, it was never accompanied by an anger/frustration/acting out component. But, the psychologist who diagnosed him cautioned us to be vigilant as parents to be sure he was well socialized.

Why? Because a child who need lots of extra help in the classroom is responded to much better by teachers when the child knows how to behave him/herself and to control his/her impulses. It involved teaching him a TON of coping and compensatory skills - trust me, as a parent of a child who has special needs, it took a lot of patience and prayers and consistency.

In another thread, I wrote about getting involved at the schools so that the teachers, principals, deans, secretaries, lunch room ladies, janitors - so they all know who you are and who your child is. Communication is so important - we have to be partners in our children's educational process. And that includes helping the teachers manage our children's behaviors - and recognizing that just because they're mainstreamed doesn't mean the bad behaviors will evaporate.

Oh yes - our son is a mechanical engineer today - a graduate of UF. Yes, he needed special accomodations. Yes, school was tough for him. If his kindergarten teacher had had her way, he would have been assigned to the "slow learner" (her words) group. We never gave up on him and he never gave up on himself - and with the lifelong support of his God-sent second grade teacher, he realized he could make it. So, in a way, we're a family for whom "mainstreaming" worked.

Bless you; what a wonderful post! As a certified teacher who taught before "inclusion" was popular and who had both postive and experiences with it, you hit the nail on the head. NOT EVERY STUDENT should be mainstreamed. It should be on a case-by-case basis.

In 1999, I taught an English class to 7th graders. There were 30 little bodies in the seats (25 is fine, but 30 is too many....my own personal opinion). I originally had 25 and our class was blossoming. The kids were working on their writing skills and the program I used with them was wonderful (and successful).

Then the other shoe dropped; five teenagers were "mainstreamed" into the class. Two were ready to be mainstreamed, while the other 3 were not (especially when it came to being placed in a large classroom with just one teacher). None of the 3 had been in a regular classroom, but the administration thought that by simply providing an aide, all would be fine.

It was NOT. All three kids had discipline problems after coming from a self-contained classroom "taught" by a teacher who allowed them to bounce off the walls (due to their disabilities, of course. All of a sudden I had three teens demanding my attention when it came to discipline, along with their many academic needs (especially when the aide was absent or busy working w/ another student).

One boy, especially, became so frustrated that he decided to disrupt the class daily; I believe it was his goal in life. The other two decided that failure was fine since they didn't want to be mainstreamed. Thankfully, the final 2 did well in the classroom.

Mainstreaming can and should be done carefully and well. And what determines that is the school's administration and guidance departments. Not every child should be mainstreamed; too many times it's the "average" kid who suffers from mainstreaming. We should never forget about them! The gifted have their own little world, the special ed kids have govt mandates, but the average kids often get the short end of the stick!

Mainstreaming, yes (of course), but CAREFUL mainstreaming on an individual basis is a must.

WOW! What a passionate group of responses.

I was particularly interested in this article for a couple of reasons.

1. I have a kindergartener starting this fall and wonder what kind of education she will get as a "normal" student if the teacher has to spend alot of time restraining children with anger management issues. I'm already scared to death to send her to public, but can't afford private and the state shot down our hope for the Virtual Acedemy........ and

2. My young cousin is autistic and is "mainstreamed" and I wonder whether this could happen to him. He's prone to little outbursts or meltdowns. I don't know how to handle them so how do the teachers at his school??

I understand the reason the parents of these children want to mainstream them. I mean, doesn't everyone want the absolute best for their kids no matter their abilities or lack thereof? So on that hand I am all for mainstreaming if the child is ready. But it would seem that in this particular article, the children had no business being in those classrooms in the first place. I remember back to when I was in school, before there was a push to get these kids into regular classes. All of the special needs kids in my district were in classes at the middle school. And one of the teachers was in a roundabout way an aunt of mine (of sorts....there's a family dynamic I don't even want to get into) and she was the most patient with those kids and they really loved her. And most importantly, she was trained to handle meltdowns and knew each kid's needs. It's not fair, IMHO, for parents to expect every single staff member at schools with populations in the hundreds to know the needs of one kid cruising the halls. And of course, were I the parent in this situation, I would want to be called at the first sign of problem, but even in Gainesville, it could be a while for mom or dad to get to the school, and in that time the situation could escalate to the unthinkable.